Buying from China?

[Daneel]

Buying from China?

There are thousands of people out there who believe they can buy cheap brand name electronics and textiles from the other side of the planet as easily as they go grocery shopping. Believe it or not. As far as I know (I should mention that I am not in this business myself so I'm no authority) the idea that you can always get the latest Nokia/Sony/Apple gadget cheap from China is just a dumb get-rich-quick myth that gets thousands of people scammed. There is no such thing as cheap branded electronics from China, but there are hundreds of scam sites feeding off this dumb myth. The chance that the one you found is real is practically zero, all other things being equal.

If you are looking to do business in China (or anywhere else for that matter) you actually need to learn something about international trade, about the market you are entering, and especially how to make sure you get what you pay for. This is not necessarily easy, it is not something we do on this forum, and it is not something we can provide advice on.
What we can do is provide a forum for people to share experiences and opinions, and we can help you recognise common scams. But frankly, if you intend to start a business importing from China then this is something you really need to learn to do yourself. There are also plenty of companies you can hire to do this for you, which is probably the easiest way, here are a few possibilities. Two forums that could be more appropriate for an aspiring internet trader is www.thewholesaleforums.co.uk and http://resources.alibaba.com/discuss..._Diligence.htm

As for the common scams you will find in China, the most popular is of course websites selling all kinds of brand name consumer electronics at below market prices. These are always fraudulent, and they operate on most B2B and auction sites. Here was a small collection of them. You can find some pointers here on how to recognise them. Some of them like to excuse themselves with that the goods got stuck in customs somewhere, or just send a fake Nike shoe regardless of what you order. Some will send non-working tracking numbers. The city of Putian, and the Fujian district, is somewhat infamous for fraud both in China and internationally. It's possible to find plenty of scam companies from this area, many of their websites advertise fake Nike shoes in combination with electronics.

Many of these scammers go around spamming eBay traders who are usually the primary targets, some examples are here.

All Chinese sites selling all kinds of designer clothing will only deliver counterfeit items. Some of them will freely admit this, others will not. Many of these will also scam you, sometimes only depending on which salesperson you are talking to. These companies are operating outside of the law already so they have little incentive to actually deliver anything, and frankly it's a lot easier to just scam people. They know you can't really complain either way, as long as you realized the goods were fake. Trading in counterfeit items is after all not legal. You may get your items seized by customs and face legal action. Seeing the difference between a fake faker and a "real" one is often very difficult as the fakers use similar methods as the scammers to stay anonymous. Either way, I'm not personally interested in the difference, and I have no wish to assist people with this type of business. We have no way of knowing if people will try to pass these items off as authentic or not. We have a long list here of sites suspected of being scams or selling fakes.

Many other types of counterfeit items can also be found in China, e.g. memory chips, golf clubs, Ipods and mobile phones (often including models that have yet to be released). They will always claim that the quality is "AAA+" which can mean half of them are broken. If they claim that the items are authentic the price will often be thereafter as well, but you will still only receive fake junk. Don't expect them to honor any guarantees they give you unless you have the resources to hire a couple of Chinese lawyers to go after them. You really need to check them out so you know who you are dealing with, see above.

It should be mentioned that there are a few legitimate companies selling refurbished electronics from China. These can be cheap, but for good reasons, and there might be quality issues that you need some proper commercial due diligence to deal with.

But the fact is, beyond the obvious scammers and fakers, there is no easy way to check out a Chinese company unless you speak Chinese. Even real Chinese companies will often use Western Union or MoneyGram for smaller payments, and use free email addresses, for example. Scammers (and fakers) will invariably only offer WU, MG and a personal bank account for payment methods, some also have PayPal. Real companies should have a company bank account and will also accept L/C. But there are exceptions to this, and these complexities of international trade is not something we are qualified to enlighten you on.

Recovering money lost to fraud in China is very difficult, just like anywhere else. You would need to report it in person to the police there, or hire a legal representative, which won't be worth it unless you lost more than at least a few thousand dollars. Here you can find some advice from a Chinese lawyer.

B2B sites like TradeKey.com, Alibaba.com, EC21.com all have some sort of paid members who are verified in various ways. For your own safety you should not assume that this means anything at all, especially if they joined the site very recently. And especially if they are selling cheap branded electronics, there is always very good reason to be suspicious as it's not unusual for scammers to be paid members on these sites. If you read the terms & conditions, disclaimers etc... on the sites you will most likely find that they do not make any guarantees that a paid member is legitimate or supplies authentic products. If you intend to start a business it can be a good idea to start reading the fine print. The practice of phishing is also not unheard of, you have to be sure you are dealing with the real company and not some scammer who stole their password.

/Jonas Anderson
©Copyright 2007 - FraudWatchers.org

[mjeik]

i think i have been ripped of from www.scaway.com

[Daneel]

Yep, sorry, that looks like a typical scam site.

[ayazito]

Hi,
Very usefull information. Thanx

Sorry for offtop. Is there any list here that states the names of checked China companies, that normal users can direct to?

If not, Why dont we compile the one, that will help the victims to adress them their need.

Once again, Thanx to all for the huge work they are doing to help.

Dear Sir,

I ask you for help.

I am businessman from Bulgaria and want make business with Chinese companies.

I would like making trade relation with some Chinese companies from Putian City, Fujian Province. China. But I am not sure that these companies are legit companies. I read that has many cases of fraud companies from Fujian Province. China. I hope that you are able to tell me if any comapny is legit company or is fraud company. I hope that you can indicate me these companies, which are legit.
Please find below list of some companies, with which I would like make business.

Getbest trading co.,ltd, Strand
Located in Putian City, Fujian Province. China.

XiaMen Da Hong Yuan Clothing Manufacture Co. Ltd
Located in Putian City, Fujian Province. China.

Putian Chengxiang Foreign Trade Co., Ltd.
Located in Putian City, Fujian Province. China.

Head international TradeCo .,Ltd
Located in Putian City, Fujian Province. China.

Lovingnice Trade CO,.LTD.
Located in Xiamen City, Fujian Province. China.

Buy-jordan International Trade Co.Ltd
Fujian Province. China.

Can you tell me which companies from listed above are legit companies?
If you can answer of this question please – can you tell me contact information (email and msn) for some others companies (which have the same business activity) from Fujian Province. China, for which you sure that are legit companies?

Thank you very much.

Have a nice day.

<contact information removed>

how about www.oosoon.com ? i was sooo close to being scammed I actually sent the payment via western union, but before i gave the control number i read this forum then cancelled it.

Thanks !!!

[Nyla]

Originally Posted by Milko Harizanov

Can you tell me which companies from listed above are legit companies?
If you can answer of this question please – can you tell me contact information (email and msn) for some others companies (which have the same business activity) from Fujian Province. China, for which you sure that are legit companies?

No, unfortunately, we can do neither. We can't decide if the people you're contacting are legitimate based on nothing but a vague address and a company name. Scammers often impersonate real companies, and we have no way of confirming that there is a real company there, or that the people you are talking to are representatives of the company located there.

And we cannot endorse commercial sites or recommend them as legitimate.

We cannot provide commercial due diligence for you. That requires hundreds of hours of work, research, extensive travel, knowledge of the Chinese language and far more resources than we have. We're a small, all-volunteer site. You need to contact a credit reporting firm and have them perform due diligence services for you. Expect that to be a regular business expense if you choose to do business with Chinese companies. You should assume it will be part of the cost of doing business.

If you can't afford to do so, at the very least, read Daneel's post and research all you can about the risks you will be taking, and deal only with Chinese companies that have CORPORATE bank accounts. (Never deal with a company that has an account owned by "Jimmy Chen" or anything other than the name of the company.) Also, if you want brand names, you may be able to contact the manufacturer (for example, Apple, if you want to buy iPods) and ask for a list of suppliers you can contact.

[Nyla]

The site www.oosoon.com claims to carry the iPhone, which it can't possibly do. That screams "total scam" to me. You can only get the iPhone, with contract, from AT&T/Cingular.

[Daneel]

Yep, it's fake junk, at best, and you would have to be very lucky to get anything when paying with WU.

If you intend to actually start a business or import from China, you really need to learn to do your own research, or hire someone to do this for you. This was, sort of, the point with my post. We can't help much with these things, what you need is some actual professional assistance. You can find some links for this in my post above. If you can't learn or afford this, or find assistance in some other way, you should probably try to find safer business somewhere else.

[estacionsur]

hello .. watch this site ... www.prs-123.com ... looks like another scam site right? incredible low prices, the seller insist in a WU transfers, finally give me a personal bank account but i dont know what to do, opinions please!

[estacionsur]

impossible to get an iphone from asia?? i found hundreds of sites with good rank on tradekey selling it ....

[FW Admin]

Then they are scammers, pure and simple. Iphones haven't even hit outside of the US yet (not even Canada) so anyone in another country telling you they can sell them or have them is lying. Iphones, in the foreseeable future, will NOT be able to be bought as stand alone units - the way they have been developed means that they must be tied to a provider. At the moment, the only provider for Iphones is AT&T in the US. No others have been agreed.

[Daneel]

If they claim they are genuine iPhones, they are lying. There are plenty of illegal counterfeit versions as well.

Originally Posted by estacionsur

www.prs-123.com ... looks like another scam site right?

You're right, it's just another typical scam.

[Nyla]

Originally Posted by estacionsur

hello .. watch this site ... www.prs-123.com ... looks like another scam site right? incredible low prices, the seller insist in a WU transfers, finally give me a personal bank account but i dont know what to do, opinions please!

Paying to a personal bank account in China is every bit as insecure as using Western Union. If you're scammed, your money is gone. At the very least, a Chinese company should have a bank account in the COMPANY name. The burden of identification is a lot higher for a corporate bank account. I'm also told that most legitimate Chinese companies will deal with a buyer using a Letter of Credit.

And even if certain products are manufactured in Asia, that doesn't mean they can be legally sold in Asia. The Asian release of the iPhone is set for 2008. http://www.myitablet.com/iphone-rele...r-uk-31294.php
Apple certainly would not stand by and let their own manufacturer 1) undersell them and 2) penetrate a market nearly a year before Apple starts exporting said product to that market. And that's not even taking into account that there is no such animal as an "unlocked iPhone" and no carriers signed on outside of the States.

[estacionsur]

people, some trusty laptop reseller in asia you can recommend?? im tired of browsing sites full of ****ty nikes and fake clothes

[Daneel]

No, we are not eBay traders and can't help you find legitimate suppliers. And we do not endorse companies either way.

Hey !

Ssup ?
Why didn't we find this web resource a week ago ?
We sent 2400$ CAD and got nothing from one "Chinese" web site.
Anyway please keep in minds, these are dangerous:

http://www.seatrade123.com/
http://www.2008shopping.com/ <--- this is the one we 've bought from
http://www.fairynethome.com/


Thanks once again that you are existed - now it a time to READ A LOT !!!

Cheers,
Vlad, Quebec, Canada

[lat]

For Business with China is Good but in Website alot of Cheater & Frauder,

Bellow is my method all should be know with:
1-Telphone Number with Landline (Call to meet them)
2-Fax Number
3-For Hand Phone (No Believe)
4-Ask your supplier with Lisence (from Governor) for Checking
5-Using LC if Medium or 5000usd up (Depend on U Want)
6-Price (No More Cheaper)
7-Using T/T account (WU, Money Gram very good service but must be trust can do it them)
8-Ask Them Copy or Compatibel or Packge Box Simillar or Original
9-Better Using A/C for shipping by owner self

Look : Infomation of Cheater or Frauder follow link below:
http://www.scaway.com/info.asp?typename=contact
http://www.ecdigit.com/contant.asp?c...hfasdf=Contact

Alway Cheater or Frauder only have Address and email, mobile phone or website only.

Alot of Cheater or Frauder are selling Shoe, Phone, Electronic that expensive price and selling cheap price also we are intereted but it is bad risk for us for looking buying something products from China.

Any person good idea please sharing in here for improve safety to be avoid a victims.

I think I have been ripped off from www.world-sell.com

[ThatGrrl]

Hi there unregistered4,

Unfortunately that looks very much like a scam site. Payment by Western Union or Moneygram, or into a personal bank account. Contact email addresses at hotmail. Site registered for one year, and with free email addresses and mobile numbers.

TG